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Vecchio 29-09-2014, 14:52   #1
MY NELLIE
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predefinito Pinus nigra var. austriaca (austrian pine)

Long time no see! (this is chinese english)

Well, once more I am in need of your help, dear Italian bonsai friends!
This is about a pinus nigra, an ordinary nursery tree which I bought in order to work on it and get experience regarding the process of bonsaiing a pine.
I have nothing done but I intend to remove yellow/dear needles, scrap some soil from the surface to reveal possible nebari.
I will not attempt to repot now, just remove the tree from original pot and put it into a bigger crate kind of a basket and fill the space with free draining substrate. I also intend to poke some holes into the original soil and fill the gap with appropriate mix/substrate.
I almost know which branches I want to keep and which will go, too.

What is there to be done right away in your opinion? Remove branches? Remove the tips to promote backbudding?
Photos coming soon...

Thank you so much in advance!
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Alexandra
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Vecchio 29-09-2014, 17:12   #2
StefanoDR
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Hi,
I wait for the photos but, meanwhile, I have a question : is it a little plant or not ? If it 's a little tree I suggest you not to cut the useless branches where you need to increase the trunk diameter...
I suggest also to poke some holes if the soil is too compact...
You can also manure the tree with tamaki or hanagokoro...
I will leave all the other things you suggest to next spring.
Bye
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Vecchio 29-09-2014, 21:16   #3
MY NELLIE
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Thank you Stefano!

Here is the tree. I haven't removed dead needles yet.


The bark has some interesting features



Looks healthy.


The trunk is splitted into two and I have to choose one out of them.


I will keep the one which looks more aged. It is the one at the rear. The front one is younger

I am looking forward to your suggestions regarding the first steps.
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Alexandra
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Vecchio 30-09-2014, 11:44   #4
StefanoDR
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Hi Alexandra,
I suggest to proceed this way :
  • Remove all the dead needles and the useless branches
  • Look carefullly to the tree ( take your time to decide the project of the future bonsai) to decide the front of the tree
  • Try to draw a possible design of the future bonsai
  • When you will be sure of your project begin to apply wire to all the branches beginning from the big ones
  • Model all the branches according to your project

Good luck !!!
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Vecchio 30-09-2014, 13:31   #5
MY NELLIE
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Thank you Stefano!
Quote:
Originariamente inviata da StefanoDR Visualizza il messaggio
  • Remove all the dead needles and the useless branches
    The useless branches should be removed in one go? Or maybe gradually?
  • When you will be sure of your project begin to apply wire to all the branches beginning from the big ones
    What about those branches which need to be shortened? Will I cut them back now to the desired length? Will I do this gradually?
What about repotting? Next spring I suppose?
How much work on the root ball is it safe to be done at first?
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Alexandra
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Vecchio 30-09-2014, 13:41   #6
MY NELLIE
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Is this species pino nero autoctono the same with austrian black pine?
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Alexandra
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Vecchio 30-09-2014, 13:57   #7
StefanoDR
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Hi,
like you say it would be better to repot next spring ( when you see the candles begins to became longer )...
To avoid any problem to the roots I suggest to eliminate the most of the old soil leaving only a good ball around the nebary of the tree....
I suggest to repot in a cultivation pot ( a ceramic pot used for training tree ) using akadama and kyriu...
If the old soil present micorritia mushrooms ( white layer on the bottom/side surface of the old pot ) you can add part of it to the new mixture soil ...
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Vecchio 30-09-2014, 13:59   #8
StefanoDR
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I don't know exacly if pino nero autocnono is the same of austrian black pine but i suppose they are very similar...
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Vecchio 30-09-2014, 14:51   #9
MY NELLIE
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Stefano, you said
Quote:
Remove all the dead needles and the useless branches
Those useless branches should be removed in one go? Or maybe gradually? In any case leaving a stump for jiining....

What about reduction of height? This also should be done gradually?
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Alexandra
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Vecchio 30-09-2014, 15:36   #10
StefanoDR
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Alexandra,
you can leave jin leaving a part of the branches you decide to cut...it depends by your final project of the tree....
you can also decide to reduce the height but I suggest to proceed gradually : do not cut brances if you are not sure...it would be better to wire all the brances if you have hany doubt on some brances...
In the same way cut without any doubt any branches you are sure they will not be useful for the final project ..
In short, if you have a doubt about a branch leave it on the tree otherwise cut the branch leaving, if useful, the jin ...
When you complete the wiring , you will have to model the tree ( decide the inlcination and position of each branch )..
It's very important you decide the first branch : Ichinoeda is the first branch of the tree found from its base when one starts counting branches. The structure and the beauty of the entire tree is greatly determined by Ichinoeda . The location of the position from where branches come out and their relations with the thickness of a trunk and the balance between the height of the tree and the length of branches greatly affect the form of the tree as a whole.
You have to remember that in the conifers the branchs are slightly inclined towards the bottom to simulate an older plant...
For the first step you have to give the maximum light and air to each branch of the tree....This means you have NOT to bend excessively each branch with doodles...
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Vecchio 30-09-2014, 17:46   #11
MY NELLIE
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I am grateful for your time, Stefano!

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Alexandra
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Vecchio 01-10-2014, 09:08   #12
StefanoDR
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....It's a pleasure, for me to speack about bonsai and I'm curious of what will be the final result : this is the only way to understand what I'have been able to explain

Good luck !
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Vecchio 01-10-2014, 13:19   #13
MY NELLIE
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Surely I will need luck, Stefano. Given my previous failures...
Quote:
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....It's a pleasure, for me to speack about bonsai ... ...
May I take advantage of this pleasure of yours and ask one more question?
Well, I have been told at the nursery that this pine is a "sylvestris" but this seemed doubtful to me. So I looked at images of sylvestris candles vs candles of p. nigra and I concluded the pine is a pinus nigra.
Will you please take a look at the above photo of the candles and tell me what do you think
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Alexandra
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Vecchio 01-10-2014, 13:39   #14
StefanoDR
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I agree with you : the candles seem to be typical of pinus nigra; the needles seem typical of pinus nigra too so...... I conclude this is a pinus nigra also if the trunk seems similar to pinus sylvestris trunk.
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